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[Table] IAmA Titan Quest designer struggling to launch an independent game studio and develop a new game

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Date: 2012-05-01
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Questions Answers
One of my favorite little "features" from Titan Quest was how if you saw a little goat-man running at you with some bad-ass glowing sword of doom he actually dropped it. It was awesome how mobs would actually wear the loot that was on them; will we see something like this in Grim Dawn? Yes, we've tweaked the system a little so that enemies can sometimes drop things that aren't equipped (although we're still trying to keep that semi-appropriate) but if they have a magic item, that item will always drop. If it is just a common item, it can break and you won't see it but bad-ass glowing swords of doom will always drop when equipped.
YOUR LEAD PROGRAMMER WAS IN BANG CAMARO?? Haha, yeah Bryn Bennett, he actually left Harmonix (where he ended up after ILE) last year and is working on his own indie game. I'm not sure what the name is yet but his studio is called Eerie Canal.
What aspects of Titan Quest have been improved for Grim Dawn in your own opinion? The biggest are mood / atmosphere and combat. I always felt like TQ was a little flat in terms of the atmosphere. There wasn't that sense of mystery and danger that the Diablo games do so well. We've put a lot of effort into developing that more and creating an interesting world with a well-developed history. We've also put a ton of effort into combat and pacing. We've added blood / gore effects, enemy hit reactions, special deaths for some enemies, others ragdoll, zombies can be dismembered, hit sounds are crunchier, blood spatters on the ground and pools under bodies, etc.
There are also a lot of cool new features though. The more open world is something I really enjoy as a player who prefers to ignore the main story and run off exploring. We've also added more randomized elements, dynamic weather, a faction system, destructible environments - really cool busting through doors or blowing up walls to reveal hidden areas.
By "randomized elements" do you mean randomized dungeons/maps? The one thing I did not like about Titan Quest was the static areas... really killed the replayability for me. We have a new feature we call "setpieces" that can be used to spawn different sets of randomized scenery or entire enemy camps complete with monster spawners and camp art assets. This means on different play-throughs a specific location in the world could be just wilderness, couple coffin wagons surrounded by zombies, a groble camp with totems and boiling cauldrons, a cultist shrine with a bloody altar, or a traveling merchant camp. We also use this technology to create randomized barriers in the levels that can change the slow of gameplay, so you fight through it a little differently each time.
Add to that, we also have new tech to randomly spawn dungeon entrances that can lead to different dungeons, which can also have randomized enemy spawns and randomized barriers. It is sort of middle-ground between totally randomized levels and the more appealing look of hand-crafted environments. It is a bit of the best from both worlds.
Haven't heard of this game before, but checking out your website it reminds me of that NWN and Baldur's Gate/Planescape esque style and I love those games! So I'll keep an eye out and donate to your kickstarter. :) I think you'll enjoy Grim Dawn then as we're going for sort of a blend of ARPG and old-school style RPG. As a kid I loved the TSR Goldbox AD&D games like Pool of Radiance, Curse of the Azure Bonds, Eye of the Beholder, etc. I want to advance the core gameplay of ARPG while bringing some of the magic of those older games into the mix.
Two questions, how hard is the journey from concept/idea to actual substance, IE, a working game model? I see a lot of people who start with these excitable ideas but eventually they loose steam and the idea is just vapourware. It is a huge challenge and one that I think inexperienced developers often totally underestimate. The only reason we can be doing what we're doing is that we started with the sourcecode from Titan Quest, which represents about $3m worth of past development. I've also built up a massive tolerance for working long hours, over the course of multiple years, from the development of Titan Quest - that was a brutal project. ; )
secondly, where the heck do I find little indie studios? Is there a bar? A small watering hole on the web that you meet so I can see what sort of indie games people are working on? At the moment I rely on word of mouth from friends and Destructoid. Honestly, I'm not really sure I have any better idea than you. I mainly only find other indie studios when read about them in articles or bump into the developers at conferences and such. I think it is tough though to really compile any sort of list since indie can range from larger more established studios that are technically independent from publishers but not really "indie" and, on the other end of the spectrum, inexperienced developers right out of school or may or may not ever finish a game.
Assuming your funding needs are met how do you intend to implement the expansion of your game studio? Will you set up offices or continue to work remotely with the new employees you intend to take on? If you choose to work remotely how do you think you will overcome the need for regular contact with all the team to ensure you maintain good momentum and direction? It depends on where we end up with funding. If we just barely scrape by our goal, we'll probably do a mix of working remotely and having a few people local get together at someone's house daily or at least a few days a week to help improve collaboration. If we end up feeling like we can afford it or if we end up in a situation where we don't have quite enough to hire another full-time person, we could consider getting a small, totally ghetto office. There is a nice abandoned building down the street that I've been eyeing. Put a tarp on the roof and its probably good to go!
We've gotten pretty good at working remotely though over the past couple years.
Grim Dawn sounds really interesting. Any info if it will be on Steam and/or when it will be released..? I realized you recently started the Kickstarter for it, but any idea what year? Are you working on your game/ game studio full time now? We fully expect that people will be able to redeem their keys on Steam as Valve has done that with many other indie studios but, of course, they have final approval. We think we may be able to release the alpha end of this year / early next and then are shooting for a release in August of next year. The more people we can get helping to build out the content, the sooner we'll get the full release and the more content we'll have.
I also bought your game Titanquest while it was on sale on steam, and can't build up enough determination to play it. Can you think of anything that will convince me to? Yes, I've been working on Grim Dawn full-time for about 2.5 years now along with our programmer. Other guys, mostly friends from Iron Lore, have been helping out part-time but have to keep day jobs at other studios to pay the bills.
Edit: typos. Hmm, I don't know, depends on your thirst for ARPG loot goodness. You should go talk to the folks at titanquest.net or maybe find someone to play with on the Grim Dawn forums. ; )
Anything you can tell us about classes? I always felt the biggest drawback of RPGs is the facts that they have the standard Mage/ArcheMelee characters. If like titan quest, awesome, I liked that variety. With that being said, I loved titan quest and cannot wait to play Grim Dawn. Best of luck! It will be similar to Titan Quest, as far as having classes that loosely fit into certain archetypal gameplay roles but with diverse themes that aren't just cookie-cutter RPG classes. I'm also trying to build each class with more options for active, big-impact skills that are fun to use and more flexibility in terms of weapon-types. So, for example, soldier is mainly geared toward melee but you can use all the skills with a gun / crossbow if you want, which makes for a lot more synergy with, say, the demolition class. We also have an occultist, that is a summoning / debuff / DoT class, an arcanist that is more of a straight sorcerer style class with lots of high-damage and AoE skills, and a "nightblade"... names aren't quite finalized. The last class is sort of a blade throwing assassin / illusionist. Then we hope to keep adding new classes through expansions. I'd love to get up to 10-12 skill masteries, or more!
In which other game development positions did you work before Grim Dawn? You started as game tester and became lead designer for Titan Quest. What was inbetween? I only briefly "worked" as an external multiplayer tester for Ensemble and then wrote a couple chapters for their official Age of Kings strategy guide. Talking to some of the designers there, Bruce Shelley and Ian Fischer, is what opened my eyes to the possibility of working in the game industry. Before that, I sort of had this notion that games magically appeared and never thought about the possibility of a career in making games. From there, I landed a job as a designer at Stainless Steel Studios working on an RTS called Empire Earth. I was only there for about half a year then went to finish my college degree. I only had half a semester left, so it seemed ridiculous not to finish. Then right after graduating I was contacted by Brian Sullivan who remembered me from Ensemble and was looking for a designer. So, I started out as the only designer at Iron Lore, moved up to lead gameplay designer on Titan Quest as we hired more designers (they felt Brian Sullivan needed to retain the lead design title for marketing purposes) and then later was promoted to lead designer on our new project.
What happened when Iron Lore studios shut down? How and why did you guys decide to start a new company without any funding etc? Iron Lore basically fell victim to what most often kills smaller independent studios, for various reasons, they just couldn't survive the gap between projects / line up the next paying project fast enough. It was probably mostly insanity that promoted me and a couple others to try to launch a new studio. I think to take on a task like that, you need to know just enough to be able to get started and make educated decisions but not enough that you fully realize how much work / challenge you're taking on. On a personal level, I really wanted to be able to keep working on more complex, traditional games that I love and I didn't see a lot of job opportunities to do that. I also didn't want to just sign on at a big studio where I'd have to work within all of the constraints handed down to me from above. I'd already had enough of that at Iron Lore, despite it being a relatively small studio. I wanted to be free to make games according to my own vision. We also wanted to find a way to break out of that traditional publishing deal treadmill of signing a deal, losing ownership of your IP, getting funds as an advance on royalties you had to pay back before you earned any profits and always being at risk of going under if you couldn't line up that next paying deal fast enough. It just didn't seem worth it.
There is that "open-world action role-playing" statement in Grim Dawn description on Kickstarter. I have a few questions about gameplay - will there be multi-leveled dungeons with a bad-ass boss on the last floor? How the game world is made - is it one seamless place or many different locations with loading screens between them? Are there bosses fixed to every locations or just in key scenes? Is gameplay divided on acts like in Diablo? Oh, btw, supported. Whoa, this is a very question-dense post! ; ) We're trying to create a fairly randomized. The terrain isn't randomly generated but we want to try to randomize the location of important content like enemy camps, boss locations, dungeon entrances, as much as we can to boost replayability. Some bosses will occur in most fixed locations, like the bottom of multi-level dungeons but others will appear more randomly. Most of the above-ground world is seamless and actually a large, connected expanse of land that makes geographic sense. We've developed a new system that allows us to randomly place entrances or portals to dungeons and different regions, some extra-dimensional realms. Entering one of these portals nearly instantly pops you out in a new location, so there isn't really loading but it isn't quite seamless when you enter these types of semi-random side-areas. We're not planning on having acts, the game is a bit more free-form where you can access regions in different orders and sort of progress in different directions at your own pace.
Thanks for answering, Arthur! It's a good news there's no acts 'cause it really boosts replayability from the very start. Of course, if the world is well-planned and balanced. And it's a lot easier to make expansions, just extending the world map and adding new locations with new content. By the way, how is enemy levelling going to be realized? Will player meet monsters of his level wherever he's gonna go from the start or enemy levels will be fixed for every location and if player attempts to visit high-level location, he's going to get his ass kicked in so brutal and unbelievable way he'd want to cry? And will high-level locations be open for player anytime he'd wanted to visit thenm just for the hell of it and try his luck or will they be locked until some conditions met? Enemy levels for each area have a min and max level. The max level range is generally a lot higher than TQ, which allows you to play through areas at a different pace (exploring everything vs. running through) or play them in different order. Although, there is a max, so if you run through the starting area, then come back at level 40, it will be underleveled for you. However, if you run ahead to higher level areas, there will be a min enemy level, so that the world doesn't completely scale with you and you can encounter enemies too high level to safely take on (although you're welcome to unsafely take them on). To gain entrance to some higher-level areas, you'll do things like gather resources to repair bridges or defeat enemy checkpoints. You can attempt to do this as soon as you manage to get the resources or are able to overcome the enemies guarding the entrance.
When going to school, do you recommend getting a game design degree or something more open ended like a software developer degree? Honestly, I don't even really know what people do in game development courses and I think most of the industry shares that feeling. The game programs have a few schools seem to have some merit but most just seem like a quick attempt for schools to cash in on students hoping to get into game development.
So, depending on what type of game development career you want to get into, there are different options. If you want to be a programmer, get a CS degree. That is, of course, very useful in or out of the game industry. If you want to be an artist, think about a traditional art or graphic design course but you're probably better off learning 3d on your own (go to places like polycount.com or gameartisans.org for help). If you want to be a designer, please learn how to write! Haha, seriously, I can't tell you how many applications I get for design positions from people who can't even write a cover letter. I'd suggest a degree in history, English, Business or really any traditional degree, especially one that is writing intense. Being able to think analytically, organize thoughts, and communicate effectively on paper is critical. Plus, if your game career aspirations don't pan out (there is enormous competition now for a relatively small number of jobs) at least you have other options. It is probably difficult to get a job outside the game industry with a degree in game development.
I'm going to study Digital Arts and Entertainment in college over the next 3 years, I'd also like to start up a Game Development company after a small career of developing for others. I'm more interested in programming than art, but also like designing levels, mechanics and lore. If I ever get to do an internship, I'd love to go to Blizzard but chances are low anyone can get in. Do you have any suggestions before I start? How do I impress a big company like Blizzard? And how did you start off? One thing I can't stress enough, is make sure you take some writing courses. It is extremely important that you're able to write clearly and correctly. If I get a cover letter than starts out "I'm not sure weather or not..." it generally goes in the trash (actual example, that really happened). There are so many people applying for entry level positions that if you can't do the basics properly, I don't think anyone will read any further. Of course, this is more important for something like design than programming or art. Another important thing is to work on something that you can use to demonstrate your ability. If you're aiming for a programming position, develop a small game. If you're shooting for a level design position, grab a free copy of a toolset like Unreal and create a badass level or an entire mod. If you're specifically aiming for Blizzard, create a Starcraft II mod or something else relevant to them. Best way to get into Blizzard though is to start at a smaller studio and do impressive work while your're there. As an actual example, I was asked if I'd be interested in talking to Jay Wilson about the lead gameplay position on D3 about a year and a half ago. It was extremely temping of course, so much so that I declined to even talk to him because I felt I had a commitment to see Grim Dawn though and didn't want to be lured away from that goal. How did I get started, well as I wrote above, mostly by accident. Back when I was in college, there weren't any game development programs and few people really thought of it as a possible career choice. It never even crossed my mind. However, I ended up getting sucked in Age of Empires competitive ladder play and wasted away enough hours at it that I ended up as a top ranked player. The game's maker, Ensemble Studios contacted me to help with play-balancing Age of Kings multiplayer and then I ended up writing a couple chapters of their strategy guide with Bruce Shelley. Talking to Bruce and Ian Fischer, I started to realize game design was something I might be able to get into. I applied there but also at a local studio called Stainless Steel, which was founded by Rick Goodman, the brother of Tony Goodman who founded Ensemble. I got an offer from them and left college for that first design job on Empire Earth. Eventually I returned to finish my degree and then was hired on at Iron Lore. So for me, it was a bit of a fortuitous series of events that changed my path in life dramatically.
Do you code at all? What skill/experience do you wish programmers you work with had/need to be better at? And what kind of tools do you find important to the project or what kind of tools do you wish you could just pick up for a reasonable licensing fee that really aren't out there? No, I'm just a designer who also meddles in art. My coding skills are virtually non-existent except for the occasional crude attempts at scripting. Rhis is our programming master-mind and could better answer this than I.
I think the main thing I'd wish of some of the programmers I've worked with over the years is that they'd put more thought into how they implement features. I've found some programmers will just do the bare minimum, exactly according to the specs, and call it done. To create robust features or tools, you really need a programmer who, doesn't necessarily deviate from the design but who has the good judgement and initiative to to take things to the next level. It is always awesome when programmers or artists get back to you with finished work that is better than you envisioned. That's what makes someone a real pro and a pleasure to work with.
How much do I have to put in to get Giraffes in this game...? At the $1k reward tier you could name something a giraffe, which isn't an ideal solution but gets you partway there. At $4k you could request that we create a giraffe armor set and at $10k you could design a giraffe-based quest, for which we'd have to actually build a giraffe. Of course, we reserve the right to veto inappropriate quests but giraffe's seem like a go!
I was to ask a question in the same direction: how do you imagine the immediate future of crate (even if only vaguely)? guess i'm more concerned with what comes after the strenuous effort that will birth grim dawn, that is... ...both if there'll be and if there won't be a zombie apocalypse... Assuming there is no zombie apocalypse, which seems overly optimistic, our hope is that the profits from Grim Dawn will finally allow us to get down to proper development, with the whole team together in one place, working on awesome traditional games. The immediate thing would be to continue work on Grim Dawn. When you work with publishers, you don't generally own your games, so there isn't much incentive to keep working on them since you'd basically just be doing free work to for the publisher. In owning our own game, there is a huge incentive to keep it going as long as people want to play it. So our main focus would be expansions and improvements for Grim Dawn. At some point further down the road, I'd love to work on a strategy game, maybe even set in the Grim Dawn universe.
I really liked Titans Quest and will be looking up info on your new game once I get out of work. Will it include multiplayer? Co-Op? PVP? What were your inspirations for designing he game? Any particular books or other games that helped give you ideas? Yes, we'll have all the same multiplayer options at TQ and will more easily expose the PvP option for those who want to host PvP games. If Grim Dawn is a success, we'd like to add to it with other gameplay modes, like co-op survival and possibly a battle arena if we can build closed servers. One of my biggest inspirations has been New England, the region I live in. In autumn it is the quintessential Halloween location, complete with creepy old farms and colonial houses. I've also been re-reading a lot of HP Lovecraft, who set many of his stories in New England. Btw, the "Chthonians" are actually not directly borrowed from Lovecraft, it is derived from a Greek word Chthonious, which roughly mans "under the earth". Link to en.wikipedia.org
I'm an aspiring game developer looking to open up my own studio soon. Any tips would be nice :) What engine do you use for the game? or previous games? How many people usually work on your games? My top tip would be to get some experience working at an established studio so you can learn how they do things. Aside from just building games, there is also a whole business component that goes along with running even a very small studio and for me it has been massively helpful that I was able to get involved in and was privy to some of the business end of things at Iron Lore, specially learning how to plan, schedule and budget projects. Having an understanding of the costs involved beyond just paying wages, how to go about outsourcing, how to talk to publishers (if you decide to go that route) and how to manage a team is critically important and tough to just learn while you're doing it without making a lot of potentially disastrous mistakes. In terms of engine, Iron Lore developed their own proprietary engine for Titan Quest and we were lucky enough to be able to work out a deal to acquire it. Depends on the game, your funding and the number of talented people willing to help you out on a voluntary basis.
A bit daunting but honest. I think many of us have a great ideas but there's so much effort that needs to be put into it... usually it's too late when you realize certain mistakes have been made and you just need to make the best of the situation. That is really what separates those who make it from those who don't. I mean, talent is a factor but there are a lot of talented people out there and the ones who will succeed are the ones who are willing to put in that extra effort.
Will Grim Dawn have a secret [Animal name] level? I can neither confirm nor deny this.
I am very interested in game development myself. What programs do you recommend to get familiar with? What classes to take? I do not know where to begin to start my path towards a career in game development. What advice can you give me? I'd start by researching as much as you can about the workings of game studios and the different development roles. Gamesutra is probably a good place to find articles. Step one is to really figure out what career path you're interested in. I sometimes get applications from people who have finished a game development course and just want a job in any position available... I'm usually not really sure what to make of those. So, figure out where your interest lie, be it programming, art, design, production and then work on developing the relevant skills.
When I moved away to college, TQ & TQIT is what kept my brother and I united. We were probably the only ones who pre-ordered TQIT in my town (they looked at me funny). It really had the gameplay we liked of Diablo II, with a well-researched greek mythology theme. I really hope you guys continue your success and will be looking forward to Grim Dawn. My question is, what are the chances of making a TQ2? If there is a possibility, will it have dedicated servers instead of P2P multiplayer? TQ2 is extremely doubtful as THQ owns the rights to the game as we'd have to cut a deal with them to work on anything TQ related, which doesn't really seem in our best interest. Who knows though... If we can't do secure servers, I'd at least like to add the functionality for dedicated servers. We can't do it prior to release but I think we could add this in down the road if the game does well. I'm a big multiplayer person myself, so it really disappointed me that we were so limited in this regard on TQ.
Who does your sound design? And any advice for someone who is attempting to get involved in a game from the ground up? My husband is a sound designer trying to make a break from advertising into games. Just wondering if you had any tips. The comment below offers some good advice - create a solid portfolio. There are a lot of sound people trying to get into gaming and a lot of freelance sound designers looking for work, so it is a very competitive job market. One of the audio designers from Iron Lore, Dan Crislip, who now works at Harmonix and another guy, Steve Pardo, who works with him are doing out sound and music.
Loved titan quest, but one of my two concerns (the other being the nonexistant gore) is the difficulty level being to easy. I was blasting through the whole game running and gunning pretty much without dying until level 30 or something. So what I'm wondering is will the difficulty level be more like titan quest or diablo 2, were I was dying pretty often and had to plan my moves for just about every encounter? Also how is your approach to boss monsters? Any unique original abilities? Will they pack a punch (kinda like rakanishu from diablo2) or are they more like slightly stronger monsters with better loot? Death comes a little quicker in Grim Dawn. I've balanced the combat so that you can basically kill or be killed a little more quickly if you don't watch out. If you get surrounded, for example, you'll die a lot faster than in TQ, so tactical movement is more important. There are also some enemies with pretty hardcore ranged attacks that you need to keep an eye out for and avoid. We've also created a number of enemies with high-damage attacks preceded by special animations, so if you're paying attention, you can quickly get out of the way. No, the bosses definitely pack a punch. They tend to have an array of skills that can quickly prove deadly if you let them land a couple on you or don't dodge the big attacks. We've put a lot more effort into creating encounters where players have to think a bit and keep moving around. Finally, we've balanced ranged and melee better in terms of their relative survivability and also created enemy skills that are particularly challenging to one or the other.
I liked a lot of things in Titan Quest, but one of my least favorite things was how LONG and grindy the game got - levelling up slowed way down, and trying to play through on all of the difficulties was an exercise in patience to say the least. Will Grim Dawn work to change this difficulty/reward curve at all beyond the open world structure, and if so, how? Yes, I myself was displeased with that in TQ. I felt a sort of tedium set in on multiple play-throughs of Greece. For one thing, the combat in Grim Dawn just feels a lot more exciting / satisfying and helps to pull you through the game. The open world does a lot since it allows you to easily cut through areas to get ahead, instead of having to run up a long, linear road. Grim Dawn is paced out more by increasing difficulty than the length of world you need run through. I also feel that an issue in TQ is that the spawning system wasn't accommodating enough for different players rate of progress. It was easy to end up out-leveling the monsters spawn, which resulted in a drop of difficulty, leading to mindless, boring combat. The way we handle spawns in Grim Dawn alleviates that problem since there can be a wider range of enemy levels in each area. I've also worked to make the experience curve a little more consistent so that you don't hit that wall around level 30ish.
Are you good friends with Brian Sullivan? He was my professor for a game design class, and told us a lot about his experiences with Age of Empires / Titan Quest. He seems like an awesome guy. Yeah, he was a cool guy to work with. We often butted heads on game design but I respect him and miss our long philosophical talks. I haven't talked to him in a while and hope he is doing well. You're very lucky to have a teacher who actually has real game industry experience since it seems like most of the teachers in these programs don't.
I have noticed that there is a lot of talk about the ways Grim Dawn intends to improve on Titan Quest in terms of environment and combat etc. Titan Quest was a lot of fun for me and am interested to know what aspects of Titan Quest if any do you think are most valuable and don't need improvement for Grim Dawn? The thing I like most in TQ is the skill system. I think some of the skill design could have been better but I really liked the way the system worked and we're carrying that forward. A lot of the basic stuff will remain much the same as well and many systems are just getting minor tweaks, basically improvements that are the result of feedback from the Titan Quest community. We don't want to go crazy and completely change the game, we just want to build on it and improve it in target areas identified by fans.
I JUST WANTED TO SAY I LOVED TITANS QUEST. ONE OF MY CLASSIC FAVORITES ALONG WITH BFME2. So my question. How closely do you think grim dawn is, compared to titans quest. is it a lot different? For better, or worse? I think it is quite similar in many respects since we were building from the same sourcecode but I think we've made a ton of improvements. Personally, I'm proud of what we did on TQ but I never found it nearly as fun to play during development as I do Grim Dawn. So, I think people will be really pleased.
What is your absolute favorite game of all time? Oh man... tough call The game I probably spent the most time playing was Ultima Online. The level of interactions possible in that game were crazy and no other MMO has ever surpassed it in that respect. Where else can you rig a poison trap in your personal tower, hide in the shadows and laugh as would-be burglars open it and then jump out to loot all the items off their corpses and put them for sale on your NPC vendor? ; ) I also loved Diablo / Diablo II, which probably played hundreds of hours of, going so far as to complete it in hell difficulty with two hardcore characters. Also, the original Age of Empires, Warcraft 3, old TSR goldbox games, pirates on the Apple2GS, a totally obscure strategy game called Ultimate Domain: Genesia, and I could probably go on forever...
As a lead designer, who implements the easter eggs? Are those completely last minute, or are they well thought out? Hah, well, it totally varies. Sometimes individual developers or small groups just sneak them in. This can sometimes be very bad if they don't use discretion and insert something that is offensive or could result in a copyright infringement. At one point we discovered someone had tried to put the ThunderCats emblem on something and that is a big no-no since it could result in a copyright lawsuit if it got out. Larger, more well-orchestrated things like the secret Overlord dungeon in TQIT are group efforts that the studio knows about and lets the team put in, assuming it isn't interfering with getting the game done.
Last updated: 2012-05-06 01:31 UTC
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submitted by tabledresser to tabled

Microsoft Surface Laptop or the Asus ZenBook Flip?

I'm getting a laptop for schoolwork and for writing, and I've been racking my brain over this for weeks. And while I've pretty much decided on the Surface, I'd really like to hear your thoughts on the Asus I'm also thinking about. I've also got some questions about the Surface that I haven't been able to find answers for, so if someone that owns either of these could describe their experiences with it, I'd really appreciate it.
• Asus ZenBook Flip 14
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-zenbook-flip-2-in-1-14-touch-screen-laptop-intel-core-i5-8gb-memory-256gb-solid-state-drive-slate-gray/6219249.p?skuId=6219249&intl=nosplash
• Microsoft Surface Laptop
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/microsoft-surface-13-5-touch-screen-laptop-intel-core-i5-8gb-memory-128gb-solid-state-drive-first-generation-platinum/6238313.p?skuId=6238313
I'd use it primarily for schoolwork and writing as I said, with some light gaming sprinkled in (Red Alert 3 and BFME2); though wether or not they'd be able to pull them particularly well, I haven't gotten any decent answers. How well would they pull older RTS games? (The older RTS games are still the best to me.)
Screen, keyboard and build quality are extremely important to me, I can't stand the feel of a cheap laptop or a terrible keyboard. I also like doing digital art, but I'm not sure if I'd be able to that on the Surface. These both have good reported battery life, so that's not an issue.
I'd also use it a lot for YouTube, Netflix, music and web browsing. I also don't travel much, but I'd like to take it with for entertainment (I don't typically drive), would the Surface be good for that? I imagine a 2-in-1 would be better since it can be folded up.
Any and all answers are appreciated!
submitted by ChadNiebuhr to SuggestALaptop

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