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Dota2 is experiencing something akin to a MeToo movement atm undergoing some massive ongoing drama, spilling into real life impacts and repercussions
Dota2 is a game, based off the original game that inspired a whole host of other games such as League of Legends, Heroes of Newerth, etc. This game is heavily established, we are talking of over a decade of competition and history spanning back to Dota1 days in WC3 and like many other competitive games, it suffers from a massive gender disparity in player base as well as toxic community. One aspect unfortunately is sexual harassment and what how ass backwards the community can be to females in the scene be it casually (someone uses the mic in game and reveals they are female) all the way to the most professional side of things (the talent (analysts, casters, guests), players, hosts, etc.) A lot of this happens on Twitter, but Ill only be posting the reddit threads. I highly recommend you look into the tweets for the original words, allegations, apologies and revelations.
It really all does begin with this thread. This is by far the most important thread multiple awards, thousands of upvotes, over 2000! comments. It details multiple women's accounts of sexual harassment via the twittersphere and implores discussion regarding sexual harassment in the dota2 scene. Its hard but try to remember some of the names of the personalities involved as many make further reappearances. This kick starts the development of many other threads, many of them also seeing over a thousand upvotes and hundreds of comments. Posted 2 days ago its clearly bad, some users do point out that one of the cases isnt what its presented to be, but at the same time, the controversy generated results in further shots taken in the twittersphere as well as some of them weighing in on the thread itself. There are also some responses which are very yikes. These include allegations which were general towards GrandGrant, a popular North American personality who I admit enjoyed as being part of the scene. Grant being American and Reddit being mostly American users, he understandably has a lot of fans.
~1-2 days ago
Soon after, GrandGrant replies on twitter issuing an apology for his conduct to CofactorStrudel. This public and adult apology results in it largely being accepted and "water under the bridge". While the previous thread is big, it would seem there isnt much drama to occur.
No real drama here in "flirting for morons" by Kyle, another big dota personality but its important since it does build up to the happenings soon to come and it does fall under the purview of this drama.
18-24 hours ago
Next up is when the train starts moving hard and fast, open call that GrandGrant harassed LlamaDownUnder out of the scene.. Llama is an aussie caster who was up and coming and mostly did the smaller games as she wasnt yet at the calibre of top casters. Wicked, who is mentioned in the first big thread, she does cosplay. She publicly mentions that there are 2 other women yet to come out against Grant who have been legitimately assaulted.
And so it happens, this is when real life consequences occur. Evil Genius is the most well known Dota2 organisation in North America. They let GrandGrant go.. The Llama harassment was public and well known, I would guess that GrandGrant came clean to them or they knew about further happenings about to occur. The thread is right on top of things seeing that EG knew about GrandGrant's persona and harassment and are doing things from a PR perspective.
And the further consequence, GrandGrant is now leaving the scene to take an "indefinite break" also important is his reddit comment here where he cites long term alcohol abuse and further apologises.
Meta post in the subreddit summarising the drama... in the subreddit itself. This one is better for time stamps. Im trying to keep it chronological, but this happens mostly out of my timezone and I didnt follow it as closely as I should. Its a good summary of stuff occurring up to this point and with edits a bit further too.
12-18 hours ago
Warning, contains sexual assult, being drugged, rape. It is legitimately sickening to read. But its important to get it out there so that voices are heard
Wicked posts the account of one of the other women sexually assaulted by GrandGrant Its long. Its detailed. Its bad. It explains why GrandGrant effectively fled from the scene when up to this point he has just been a bad drunk to CofactorStrudel and his harassment of Llama. Now you get some real psycho shit from Grant. It really is sickening to read.
6-12 hours ago
A thread warning of the things to come where those who have come out with the allegations or speak up are about to be vilified and silenced. It includes important earlier links to previous times when women have spoken up about the state of the Dota2 community. 1 2 3
Moxxi lays into someone for shouting out PR phrases while being actively part of the issue The tweets do go on, recommend you open up the link and read through before making way to the comments so you have the full context of the discussion.
0-6 hours ago
Purge, another celebrated personality on the scene, details why GrandGrant was and still is "a piece of shit this one isnt on twitter and is instead from his Twitch. Its important either way since the amount of people from the talent pool (casters, analysts) weighing in is actually very low. I mentioned briefly that Dota2 is very established, thats not to brag about the game but instead to highlight there being an "old boys culture" that can be prevalent in keeping new talent out of the scene. A lot of the culture too can be entrenched from literally years of ongoing bullying and harassment.
Llama's partner details the harassment here. It details in full the harassment experienced by Llama at the hands of Grant including to the point of filing a lawsuit for harassment. This one is important as it fully details and explains that Beyond The Summit, a big independant dota2 studio was aware of the harassment of Grant towards Llama but had an active part in not only downplaying it. They also effectively ostracised her for speaking up. BTS is a big studio name in dota2, they started from the bottom and have worked their way up over the years and now host numerous summits (tournaments of a more casual nature). The fall out from here will only spread further. More context in replies from prominent BTS founding member Blitz
Drama is ongoing, its occurring on multiple mediums (twitter, twitch, reddit, etc). Ill try to keep this thread updated as more stuff comes up and while in chronological order, the time frames will obviously be incorrect pretty much from the moment I post this.
Forgot to include this where Grant's lawsuit was exposed years ago. Except its by Baumi who by and large is ostracised from the Dota2 community for his own faults.
Slacks, another dota2 talent weighs in This is a guy with a larger than life personality with a heartfelt plea on youtube to "not be an asshole". But mostly pleading to the community of being socially awkward outcasts (gamers) to be good.
Purge speaks out further on why GrandGrant can no longer come back to the scene I figure I would make this a proper post and link directly to some of the drama in this thread
"...you're just simps putting them on a pedestal." followed by "Your parents failed."
Blitz, important member of BTS explaining how Grant flew under the radar in this thread here "We were told the lawsuit was frivolous and that grant had won and we didn’t press further" Some users take it better than others.
Wykrhm, who acts almost as a community liason between Valve and the rest of the dota community had this to say on the incident: "If you're gonna feel, then feel for those who have been wronged. Not for those who have done wrong." He is secretive and is likely an inside guy at Valve even if he doesnt necessarily work at Valve, he definitely has some close connections to be that fast with news and updates concerning Dota2.
HotBid, a dota2 personality who made his name big initially via starcraft, comes clean about his past where he was assaulted. Where power dynamics can be abused. Warning, this is some candid and distressing shit involving sexual assault of a minor.
Drama continues to emerge with accusations levelled squarely at Twitch now as a big enabler and shelter of those being predators, especially of more risque streamers here. Notably Conrad and Kixelated are called out by name. Conrad is mentioned earlier in this post regarding Llama and Kixelated is mentioned in the second link here. However drama in the thread itself is limited.
Capitalist, Dota2 caster with Blitz (mentioned above) + Capitalist known as one of the godly duo casters in dota2 having great bromance synergy together, he weighs in on the scandal Like many, myself included, he bought in on GrandGrants redemption arc into becoming a good person and was taken by surprise and disappointed at the revelations from someone he considered a friend.
AlyssuhDawn speaks out about her time as a manager at the dota2 team, Digital Chaos. Where the sponsor, Tom Hancock, abused the power dynamic to sexually harass and sexually assault her. Here Blitz is shown as an outstanding individual jeopardising the team's pay in going independent and actually paying the team out of his own pocket temporarily. Again, warning in advance as it does go into detail regarding the sexual harassment. On the bright side, Tom is currently in jail as mentioned here and here in the thread, something to the tune of 900k embezzlement/wire fraud. Sunsfan, another dota2 personality, has apparently talked about it in a podcast after the NDA lifted regarding the shitty antics of Tom. I have not heard it however.
"Jimmy" aka. DotaDemon aka Demon is a well known North American dota2 player who has also had forays and success in South East Asia with the team TNC. He is known for doing the most unpredictable of plays and there are plenty of clips I have laughed to regarding this. I say all this not just to champion him, merely to point out that he is a well known personality, especially in the NA dota scene. However, here Eleine_Sun goes into detail where Demon repeatedly sexually harassed her. I also want to include this twitlonger post which doesnt have a reddit thread just as further context even if there are no drama happenings.
No drama here, seems like comments are just purely supportive which I have to say, is wholesome as fuck since usually there is always an incel or two. Botjira who makes sets for dota2 (surprisingly lucrative fyi) and community artist speaks on her experiences and how she was sexually assaulted and her mother didnt even believe her, not only that, her refuge of video games and her friends from there had some unsavoury individuals who turned out to be snakes. Its tragic. Really fucking tragic.
Godz gets called out by cofactorstrudel. Godz is an Aussie Dota2 caster who works at BTS. CofactorStrudel is mentioned above as the first to lay accusations against GrandGrant. Comments are an absolute shitfest sort by controversial.
Example of a hot take from that thread. This is apparently all #MeToo's fault lmao
"White male bad This will be over the sooner people stop igniting more rage and hate. #metoo and #believeallwomen are to blame for this constant bickering on social media. Not to mention all the die hard SJWs jumping on the bandwagon"
TheFluffiestBunny who used to stream dota was effectively groomed by an older male. Ultimately the community itself coupled with "Jim" made her quit streaming as her reputation as "thesluttiestbunny" resulted in 3-4 dick pics EACH DAY from the community. Anyways, reaction from the subreddit is mixed. Enter at your own peril
I somehow missed this when it originally occurred, but Reinessa calls out BTS for The Summit X (casual dota2 tournament hosted at the BTS house)
Akke, dota2 pro player comes clean of his example of being sexually assaulted this thread is very "fresh" from posting this edit. At less than an hour old. Currently no drama to speak of but absolutely is part of this overall saga.
A dota2 pro player, Universe, weighs in with a relatively meek and mild mannered "be nice, dont bully, dont even bully the bully, be respectful" comments are contentious. Including those in support of Uni, to those disagreeing.
Someone brings up that [this is more than just a men's vs women's issue pointing to some examples already linked where male personalities/players have come out. Of course the usual and expected highly opinionated people crawl out arguing that they are playing down the suffering of women vs those who are playing down the suffering of men vs screeching loudly at one another.
If you read the original thread that started it all, the one I implored you to look into if nothing else as it really did spark off a lot of what has happened. Youll note in the comments that many were on the fence regarding Ashnichrist and Zyori's scandal being a scandal, many felt it did not belong with the others. Well now its truly turned against her in the court of public opinion 3k upvotes, 10 awards (2 plat, 2 gold), in a plea for support for Zyori. Comments and upvotes are in favour of Zyori. Of the comments, I believe this one is most important, Nahaz is a dota analyst, famous for his stats (he is an actual professor). He has also been divisive in the scene being both celebrated and hated. Roughly 2 dozen replies, but unfortunately he is smarter than to get bogged down in a shitting match (this time at least) so the drama ends pretty much there. But regardless, this is one of the bigger names in the scene weighing in in the comments.
Refering back to an earlier comment, the one regarding llama's big write up in a twitlonger accusing BTS as a whole of enabling Grant. LD, dota2 caster, hits back with yet a new medium: Google docs seen here We are now in reddit, twitter, twitch, youtube, google docs. While the comments do get heated, the discussion overall here is more measured and thoughtful in approach. Sorry if you want drama.
And we are back with more Jimmy aka. Demon. Another girl involved, Hotbid himself (as mentioned above) posting the twitlonger. He comments further in the thread detailing how BTS will no longer be allowing Demon to host.
KotlGuy aka Dakota, is a producehost at BTS also weighs in here If you like dumpster diving, the absolute dregs of the thread include the likes of: "CuckoldGuy. The world has lost to SJW-shit and black marauders."
But it is overall a relatively small thread.
Brax, a dota2 pro, comes out with his tale of sexual abuse. Warning, sexual assault involving children. By far the biggest WTF moment is Sunbhie with a rebuttal a goddamn rebuttal to a sexual abuse story. Anyways, read it and make up your mind, apparently there are cultural issues at play here, I dont know anything about Korea other than the foods so I cant weigh in at all. Its definitely in poor taste to someone who felt that they were sexually abused repeatedly as a child.
Cofactorstrudel who was the first to accuse Grant of misdeeds has come out again swinging at Toby. Toby Tobiwan is one of the best known hype casters in the english dota2 scene. From the tweet: "Every single woman I know has told me to be wary of Toby Dawson. It's an open secret among women in the industry." reactions in the comments are mixed from "I knew it" to "I knew he was a creep, but did he actually sexually assault anyone" to this little psychological analysis of Toby. Toby is a high profile person in the scene having casted numerous big games and having been central to the competitive scene for years where he was the number one caster. Without more concrete accusations, it would seem that it would remain the status quo where he is the anti social creep, but that doesnt mean he is a predator.
Classic Jimmy. Yet another story detailing Jimmy aka Demon's exploits. as someone who has followed the scene for years, I always figured he was a sleazy playboy, not actually this sleazy though. As disturbing as it is, its so nasty, weird and absurd its getting comical. Like he tries to flirt by... dry humping with his erect penis? Instead of talking, sexual assault.
This twitter link is deleted, but the reddit comments are important looks like Tobi (Toby, Tobiwan) attempted to apologise but it was lacking and appeared shallow to many users. To the point it got deleted alongside his other twitter posts as he, himself, mentions in this comment in the thread. This is the same Tobi who was dismissive of Llama's comments.
Deserving of a second update today. It looks like Tobiwan is crashing and burning to put it mildly. Valve have just removed his iconic voicelines from the battle pass in an update.
GrandGrant is relatively new in the scene, he has been here years and years. He has had a following years and years, but its only been in the last couple that his career has taken off after much hard work and networking. Toby, Tobiwan, Tobi has been here pretty much from the start, he was the undisputed top caster for many years during the first couple years of dota2's creation and growth. Tobi going down is big big news as he isnt just another NA personality, he was THE voice of dota.
I was messaged to perhaps start a new thread, but I dont really want to farm karma so an edit will do for now.
Continuing the chronological format: We start with this "Tobi pinned me down in the hotel room. I almost didnt escape" - botjira. 2.4k karma, 1.6k comments. Some choice comments: here in png form is his earlier deleted tweet where he used his daughter and wife as effective shields to the criticism, if you look at the earlier link just before the second update mention, youll see in that thread a lot of users were not satisfied with the "non apology" or that he used his daughter that way. And here is an excellent synopsis of who Tobi is for someone outside the scene. He really was the biggest English caster for years as the casting scene was yet to mature and find and grow talent. Numerous The Internationals (the biggest tournament and event in Dota each year, akin to the superbowl of Dota) were casted by him, the biggest dota2 moments have been casted by him. To say his impact is influential is underselling it. And its about to get worse.
But before we get to that, the Nahaz comment linked earlier in the Zyori case which was downvoted was given its own chance to shine with its very own post. Reactions in the original thread were very one sided, but in this new thread, they were far more mixed. There are of course those saying Nahaz is completely wrong, but also those thoroughly discussing the power dynamic.
Anyways, back to the dumpster fire. Tobi is back again. [He attempts to come clean in a twit longer discussing the events with 2 anonymous women as well as deny the accusations levelled at him by botjira
This tweet by Tobi however, upset Meruna, who does dota2 cosplays and has been in a relationship with Synd for 8 years. Tobi stated he would reach out to those he had wronged, and yet never reached out to Meruna, she took this as a "slap to the face" and posted her full story here of the event which happened 9 years ago
Warning, it goes into detail of Tobi not taking no as an answer. It features 'stealthing'. It features Meruna being asleep while Tobi is "doing things"
It includes this heart wrenching piece at the end
"Lastly, syndereN did not know of this as it happened before I met him. I told him for the first time yesterday. We've been together 8 years."Synderen and Tobi are considered to be one of the power duos in dota2. Casting is often done with 1 hype caster doing the play by plays and 1 analytical caster who covers with the important game knowledge during lulls. Tobi was the hype, Synd was the analyst. Power duos often have good synergy, good energy, and bounce off well from each other, they dont step on each others toes or talk over each other and generally work to better each other for an improved cast. Its shocking to think that Meruna would have to, for years, watch Tobi and Synd cast together without Synd knowing
"And Toby: I hope your daughter meets better men."A direct call out to his non apology.
Shortly after or even concurrent with the reply by Meruna, Synd posted this. As mentioned before, Synderen is a dota2 caster and ex pro player. Even I have typed "SYND LUL" with the masses whenever he does a fuck up. A very straight forward; "I will no longer associate myself with Tobi." kills one of the classic casting duos in dota. This is some tragic shit for Meruna to carry and for Synd to find out. Pretty much no drama in the comments here, just sadness and support.
Edit as another used here in SRD has linked some of the good stuff I missed* Botjira weighing in on the thread itself and... [this comment chain "people allowed women into our communities, a classic mistake"
LD, another dota2 caster at BTS announces he will no longer be working with Tobi. Im pretty sure this is just finalizing the talent scene blacklisting Tobi. Plenty of people in controversial who feel its inappropriate to end careers based on accusations alone. Feel free to dig if you are into masochism.
And so it happens. Ill try and explain this for non dota2 people as best as I can.
Valve, big gaming company that owns and maintains Dota2 has removed all of Tobi's voicelines from the battlepass The battlepass is like this yearly... thing that you level up to unlock things, to celebrate The International. You can fuel it with money to unlock things, to can grind out achievements or quests or wagers or a bunch of things to get levels as well. Its always been the celebration of Dota and allows for prize pool funding to be community funded as 25% of the money that goes into the Battlepass directly contributes to TI's prize pool. And its big, The International 9's prize pool was $34,330,068 USD. Valve always feeds in 1.6 mil but that still means that the community fed Valve over 130 million dollars. Anyways one of the rewards for unlocking levels is chatlines. This allows you to activate a wheel to say a prerecorded phrase. Some of them are simple like an annoying mosquito noise. But a lot of the coveted ones are ones directly quoting a hype phrase or moment in Dota2. A famous one is "Lakad matatag normalin normalin" as heard about 8 seconds into this clip. But Tobi, being the celebrated caster that he was has his own share of voicelines (example "its a disastah!")
Valve removing all his voicelines only hours after the more disturbing and thorough allegations surfaced is showing some proactive stuff and damage control. It also cements the blacklisting of Tobiwan further as Valve is officially distancing themselves from him.
Finally, we have some voices from the CIS scene CIS refers to Commonwealth of independant states and refers to the countries that formed when the USSR dissolved. It includes former Soviet republics. In dota2, the "Russian" player base is massive. And in general the Eastern European region+Russia fall under CIS. I dont follow the CIS scene. At all. I only know V1lat because he is by far the most famous Russian commentator. Overall, the views are quite backwards and of course shit slinging occurs in the comments.
We begin with V1lat, the most well known russian caster with a clam and measured take on the situation. Includes calling out Twitch chat for being pieces of shit at the end whenever its a female caster. However controversial is still full of hot takes. eg. "Thank god the culture where Vlat is from isn't so aggressively feminized and anti male that he is allowed to voice a nuanced opinion..." on the flipside "This comment thread is utter cancer. Skim through it. This community cannot be fixed. They are proud of being bigoted MRA incels."
I wasnt sure if I wanted to include this post, I could have included it yesterday, but I guess it does involve Tobiwan Comments are split pretty hard in calling OP out. Note: This is not the first nor will it be the last time racism pops its ugly head in dota, its just more side commentary atm considering the theme of most threads and thus I dont really see this gaining traction outside of this one limited thread.
Back to Grant. Several people offer their own perspectives on the night of the incident with the unnamed female with Grant Less than a thousand upvotes, more than a thousand comments. I count several dozen with the "controversial" tag regarding upvotes as direct comment replies alone. Contentious and full of popcorn.
Zyori responds (14:39) in a very sincere and apologetic youtube video. Most top voted comments agree its genuine and heartfelt. However there is still plenty of sparring over power dynamics, hate towards ashni/Kips, support for zyori, etc.
Very short, simple and to the point post here 3 golds, 1k upvotes 700+ comments. Some very heated discussions here. Top comment here 4 golds, 500 upvotes directly calls them out on it. Same guy cleans up another user weighing in
Kips, one of Zyori's accusers has her tweet promoting Zyori's youtube vid posted Comments are very and decisively against her for levelling accusations to begin with. Here is just one such example "She says she doesn't want anyone to cancel Zyori after labeling him as a systematic abuser."
PyrionFlax is a Dota2 personality, he made a name for himself for humorous youtube videos featuring his Dota2 Paint.exe art and has since branched into many panels and discussions as on the scene "newb guy" helping to bridge the gap by asking the questions someone who is less familiar with the game would ask by asking the dumb questions veterans might not feel warrant discussion or feel are too dumb to ask. He weighs in here stating he knew about the Botjira - Tobi. Its a pretty important weigh in as it directly goes into the dynamics present at the time including reporting it to Maelk (who is currently an esport figure ex dota2 pro and at the time, Tobi's boss, a quick stalk on twitter shows he is managing 100 Thieves right now playing in Valorant). Most important comment by far is Maelk himself giving his perspective and actions back then
Singsing is an ex dota2 pro who is currently a streamer on Twitch. He was one of the accused by botjira and gives some brief thoughts in a VOD here Most people are just calling out botjira. Only the severely downvoted have discussions going on and I dont really want to just laugh at the dregs. I include the link regardless for posterity.
B2ru (russian female talent) weighs in with this translated post here again, Ill mention I know fuck all about the Russian scene, only the name V1lat. Tobiwan held international appeal unlike GrandGrant. And it seems the Russian community between this post and the other one concerning other CIS reactions are solidly in support of him. If I had to pick the juiciest comment, it would be this one cake day, 75 child comments, a lot of anger.
A thread calling out Kips, everything is downvoted pretty much except comments telling OP that this thread is directly against Zyori's wishes Its a pretty small thread, just including it for posterity.
Finally something related but not filled with heavy shit. Good ol' classic mod hate Thank fuck. Accusations fly of mod's censoring common sense. Censoring supporters of the casters. Censoring... EG paying hush money?!??
[This thread is climbing hard and fast. I had it open when I started this edit at [20 comments unknown upvotes, now its 400 upvotes, 170 comments in 2 hours]. Its a call for accountability for accusations directly referring to AngryJoe's accuser backing down and Johnny Depp's accuser turning out to be the abuser. Its too early to link directly to controversy as it is a growing and rising thread.
Similar with this thread regarding Botjira's accusations against SingSing I opened it at less than 10 comments. Now its over 120. Ill include it anyways as its important to include all the posts even the not so cut and dry ones.
And also cause this is probably the last update to the thread Ill do. Ive hit the limit and Im pushing very close to the 40k max character limitation (really should remove that reddit, it fucked with my short story posting as well). All I can say is fuck me. This has been quite the fucking week for the dota2 subreddit. Its been killing me to not participate since Im usually a pretty active on again off again participant of the subreddit for years and years now. I hope things get resolved for the better and some of the shit revealed has been fucking shocking. Absolutely shocking.